Tamara – Are you kidding about freemasons being Satan worshippers? It makes you look VERY foolish when you spout inane **** like that, especially when it can be debunked in about 5 seconds on Google. Freemasons are devout *christians*. Hence the reason they were in the business of running an *orpahange*. The fact that you so easily latch onto the *stupidest* of stupid rumors shows that you are almost certainly lacking in any kind of real intelligence. But hey, whatever. I have no horse in this race. I’ve never even been to the old orphanage. I was at the old hospital though, when it was REALLY abandoned, back in 1989. The journey is detailed in some posts above, and I will not repeat the story here. Suffice it to say there were no ghosts. All abandoned places look scary and haunted. Especially true for that old hospital. Once again, though, no ghosts. Sorry folks. And there were no children slaughtered by evil child murdering satanic Freemasons at the boys home. Sorry again guys. It’s just not true. But, I think we all *really* know that already, don’t we? I know it can be fun to tell stories. I would personlly suggest, though, trying to keep your repeated and fabricated stories at least in the realm of reality. Claiming that satanic Freemasons murdered children is REALLY REALLY stupid, and that is EXACTLY how it makes YOU look, Tamara. Good day! – Tim

On an unrelated note, some of you wanting a place to go that is abandoned and that has an ATTROCIOUS past should look into the old abandoned Camp Scott south of Locust Grove. A lot of it is still there, although the old murder site is pretty much just woods. The camp was shut down in June 1977 the day after 3 girl scouts were horribly murdered. It has been closed ever since. I honestly do not really think it is cool to go there. There is a house on the 600+ acre property, and I’ve heard there are a lot of free roaming pit bulls. I’ll also bet, though, that if you slip the owners a $100 they would let you in for the day. I am not saying that the place is haunted. What it is though is an old abandoned girl scout camp that was CLOSED FOREVER THE DAY AFTER 3 scouts were brutally murdered 32 years ago. That, my friends, is as creepy as creepy gets!! Think about it. A happy bustling girl scout camp. Brutal murders. Closed forever the next day. Just sitting there all vacant being reclaimed by the woods for the 30+ years.

It is often believed that the Camp Scott murders were the basis for movies like Friday the 13th, although there is actually nothing in common. For starters the Camp Scott victims were 8,9, and 10 years old, not bimbo teenagers. IMO Camp Scott would be the greatest “ghost hunt” site in the state. The old hospital and Boys Home are just abandoned buildings. Camp Scott gives me shivers just thinking about the place. And unlike all of your rediculous stories about children being murdered at the Masonic Home, Camp Scott is the real deal. You can look it up. VERY tragic and sad place. Empahsis on the word *sad*. Such a *very* sad place. I live in DC, but the next time I am in Tulsa visiting family I think I am going to sneak out and make the little side trip to Locust Grove. Maybe park along the back fence and just hop in and go check out the old murder site (it’s a big 600+ acre campground and it takes a LOT of research to figure out where exactly the murder site is, where the bodies were found, etc., but I have done the research and I know all the locations). I’m damn near 40, and to old to be doing **** like hopping fences and tresspassing, but this is a place I am really curious to check out. I do NOT want to be disrespectful to the memories of the murdered kids, but I am going to check this place out some day. Good day – TIM

FYI – the girls were murdered in their tent in the middle of a dark and stormy night (two of them were for sure, there is specualtion that the third might have escaped and been chased down). They were all three found the next morning along a path about 150 yards from their tent by a counselor going to take an early shower. All campers were immediatley sent home and the camp never reopened. Some of you older folks will remember this case. It was HUGE 30 years ago. I don’t run into many younger people who know of it, though. One of the reasons I bring this case up is to attempt to illustrate the difference between REAL stories and FABRICATED stories. The stories of Camp Scott are true. The stories of the boys home in Guthrie are fabricated. Note the difference! – Tim

Hi there, Tim. If I had not so foolishly subscribed to the feed I wouldn’t have even known how *stupid* I actually am thoght to be. Uneducated, eh? Let me get off my application for my Master’s a second… Tim, the comment rendered about freemasons was not to be demeaning or representative in any way. It was exactly what it is, as is most of this ****… rumors, or plain b.s. I am interested in the history and architecture of such places. I am not interested in “ghost hunts,” since I am “damn near 30.”
On another note, were you actually a member of the orphanage yourself? Do you mean to say that every poster who has commented on this site stating they were indeed themselves abused by staff members of the orphanage are either lacking in intelligence or are liars? Why are you so quick to assume any of these stories are fabricated? There are documented cases of satanic worship all over the world. Either you bristle because you are yourself a freemason, or you are looking for something to do in your “damn near 40,” yet obviously boring downtime.
As in the case of the freemasons being devil worshipers, I guess everyone will find out in the end. Until then, it will continue to be what I have stated it to be in the above mentioned post- a rumor. Have a good day.

Tamara, FROM Oklahoma

Hello Tamara. Yes, I too basically forget this site exists. I bookmarked it long ago and about every 6 months I see the bookmark and think “hmm.. I wonder if anything new is posted…”. Then, after I post a confrontational post, I will check in on occasion thereafter to see if anybody has responded.

And here we are.

No, I am not a Freemason. Although from Oklahoma (OSU engineering grad), I now live in DC. So, every day that I go to work, I ride the train. Immediately next to the train station by my employer in Alexandria, VA, is this large monument. It’s about 10-15 stories tall, maybe, big fancy brick thing that sits up on a steep grassy hill. Tallest structure around. It is the “George Washington Freemasons memorial”. After walking by this thing daily going to and from the train, I finally got curious and wondered what in the hell “Freemasons” are. It turns out that they are just christians, and they believe in those type of values and so forth. If you are picturing satanists, you are just way off. Period. Think more along the lines of boring stuffy church people. Just FYI. There is simply nothing else to “find out in the end”. I’m sorry to dissappoint. No,this does not mean that EVERY Freemason is a good person. I would not be so naive as to make that claim. Yet it is clear that the organization itself is pretty tame. There is nothing inherently evil with the Freemasons.

As for the posters above who claim to be former residents and mention abuse, it is interesting how you *completely* neglect their statements where they *clearly* state that there were no murders, suicides, or any of that. I am NOT saying there was not abuse. I am saying there are not children buried in the basement or anything like that. Abuse is quite a different claim, as the sad fact is that orphanges like that probably were very prone to abuse.

Alas, yes, at the time of the last set of posts, I *was* looking for something to do in my “obviously boring downtime”. Ironically, I now have no such downtime, and in fact have too much **** to do! Sweet blissful downtime is no more, and every second that I type, much work goes undone and I dig myself deeper into a hole!!

And so I bid you farewell for now… Good luck with your masters degree!

PS – while you and I may be honest, the fact is there are a LOT of liars on little message boards like this. Just a heads up. – Tim

Tim: Her posting may have been rumors and foolishness, but the severity of your attack was certainly not justified or very manly.

By the way, don’t let an education interfere with your thinking.

Back to the funn stuff: My ex was involved in the masons, and ACCORDING TO HIM, when you reach a certain level, you become involved in some really WEIRD, and supernatural stuff. Things, that according to him, are never to be revealed. I have my doubts, however, because if it were truly secret, then the “satanic” aspect wouldn’t be such common knowledge.

This person also claims to have been there and participated in the girl scout murders. He claims one of the girls got scared during a ritual and he ordered them
killed because the situation got out of hand. Ironically, his mother claims she worked in the kitchen and found a note saying that girls would be killed. Back then no one thought a thing about such threats. She also said her husband was chief of police of the Locust Grove town and he said the feds were swarming around the area and wouldn’t even let him in the campground.
I used to think he was full of **** until he went to a reunion held at the former girl scout area. He went to some dilapidated buildings a ways in the woods and kept staring at one spot. It wasn’t too awful far from where the old swimming pool was located. What is strange is the spot he stopped to look at was next to a broke down rock building, yet the girl scouts were camping in cabin like tents. I’m fairly sure he’s lying, but then again, I’m not so sure.

Yes, I know the severity of my attack was over the line. When I write I almost always come off harsher than I intend. Sorry Tamara, if you read this. I don’t intend to be a bully (you know, as much as one can really BE a bully on an anonymous message board).
As for your friend and the Freemasons, I honestly don’t know that much about them. I do not mean to portray myself as some great ‘defender of the Freemasons’. I don’t give a flip about them and have never even known any. If they are sectretive, that is probably why people are suspicous. Are they big in Guthrie? As I mentioned in some post way above, I’ve always gotten a weird and secretive vibe from Guthrie in general. It’s just not a friendly place.
You are correct that the girl scouts were in those big tents that sit up on wooden platforms (cabin like). I know the pool at Camp Scott was open to the public for awhile in the 80’s. Is this when you guys were there? The murders were not too far from the pool, but not really too close either. They were up kind of NW from the pool and about 120 yards NW beyond a corner in a fence line that runs along the eastern edge of the property. There is basically nothing left of the old murder site, except for maybe some of the concrete foundations of the “cabin like tents” that are buried way beneath the forest by now. The bodies were carried SE from the tent about back about 150 yards very close to that same corner in the fence line, where there is also a service gate and a power line access path cut through the forest (still to this day). It seems logical that it is through this gate that the killers entered and left. It’s like they were carrying the girls to a car, and for whatever reason dropped them just before the gate. So, if that sounds famailiar at all, to sort of help gauge your friends story. If he was looking at the old broken structures just east of the pool, than no, that is not the area of the camp where the murders occured. If you hiked a ways through the woods up NW and you passed this access gate and power line cutout, that would be closer. I believe there is an old dilapidated shower house/storage facility out in the woods in the general area of the murders. And yes, there was a note found, I want to say in a box of donuts or something? It was a month or so before the murders, and it said something like “we are on a mission to kill 4 girls in tent number one”. It sounds SO ominous. It really does. But remember, this was a camp with prank prone little kids, and also it was 1977. I was a boyscout in the early 80’s, and we were all pranksters. This was the days before PC **** really kicked in, and kids were still allowed to use words like ‘kill’ without being shipped off for mental evaluation for fear that they would be a school shooter or something. FWIW, there really were no indications of any type of ritual at all. It looked more like the act of sexually depraved lunatics. Of course there are so many unknowns. Nobody really knows what happened for sure, so who is to say?
Like Tamara, I too have a deep interest in the histories and architecture of old places. Especially old places with dark stories (I also like researching to discover the dark stories). It’s an odd hobby, but one that apparently alot of people share. I like going out and finding murder sites, etc. Plus just old abandoned places for some reason really grab my attention. I have no idea why.
Anyhow have a good day. – Tim

Guthrie is not unfriendly

Hi Tim. I believe the woman who claimed she found the note said she found it in the kitchen, and perhaps in the cupboard. The reunion I went to was held in ‘89 and I don’t remember exactly where in the woods he went. I went with him, but it’s been so long ago I simply don’t remember. There were old rock structures, and I’m thinking they were only big enough for something along the lines of a smokehouse. They were crumbly with weeds and trees growing all around them. My memory may be faulty and they could actually be the foundations of the tents.

I always thought my ex was crazy, but then again I would have doubts of “what if”. I also remember being in the town of locust grove and my ex having a discussion with an “old timer” about the murders. The old timer spoke as though he knew EXACTLY who was responsible and asked us if we had seen the person around town lately. They spoke about the framing of hart and even named the “killers” and what they were up to these days. What makes me want to kick myself is the fact that the old man spoke these names and I don’t remember them. You would think something as serious as that would be remembered. I wish to God I remembered because I would call the feds in a heartbeat. I asked about the silence among the people of locust grove and was told that the murders involved two rival families involved in the mob and the whole town of locust grove sticks together. But since when did the mob begin killing children?
I consider myself to be of the most conservative persuation. Possibly more conservative then a libertarian. There are many “crimes” that have no business being on the books and that I simply would not turn a person in for. THIS isn’t one of them!!!

What is so sad and downright tragic in the aftermath of all of this is that the only hope of finding the true killers was forever destroyed when that DNA evidence didn’t pan out a couple of years back. I’m tempted, even now, to think there was a coverup involved in that, but that would border on slight paranoia. It seems the further up the chain you go in law enforcement, the more professional the people are, or tend to be.
The old timers in locust grove KNOW who did it. If they were rounded up and given the quantanemo bay interrogation treatment, then I guarantee you will start getting some names.
Since this is a hauntings site, I believe I am safe from ridicule when I say that it would be a good idea to hold a seance at the murder site with questions for the spirits on who the killers are. Who knows, something might actually come of that. But then again, would such things be admissable in a court of law? Or would it even get that far? Would the statement of a spirit constitute probable cause?
Until the last person who was alive in ‘79 dies, this is going to haunt the state.

I was just a baby when it happened, and didn’t really find out about it until years later.
I’m sorry, I know it’s off topic, and unless someone else wants to continue the discussion I won’t mention it anymore. Maybe it’s because the anniversary of the murders is coming up, but am I the only one who still feels deeply troubled and bothered about it? I woke up from a sound sleep the other night at 2:00 am with it heavily on my mind.

Anyway, I’m interested now in the two hauntings in Guthrie. Does the lions inn have a sign out front? I don’t know street addresses that well, but might be able to picture it in my mind based on landmarks. There’s the old side of town with all the large, fancy houses, and then there is downtown which is near that. But off a ways from downtown is the newer additions like Walgreens, Walmart and McDonalds. I’ve seen several of what appeared to be old buildings around the courthouse. There is an old, grey block style building right next to the courthouse that looks like it should be a prison. What is this?
I haven’t been to close to the old hospital, but before I even knew about the haunting legends, I drove by the place thinking it would make a great haunting site for halloween. I think what may be perceived as hauntings from people driving up to it at night looking for signs of spirits are actually people who’ve broken in there and are looking out the windows and shining flashlights around trying to find signs of hauntings themselves. Or it could be the cops trying to chase some young adventure seekers out of a dangerous building. It doesn’t make sense to haunt a hospital. Most people do die in hospitals. If I died in one, I wouldn’t stick around, but I would try to go back home, or to an old childhood place dear to my heart. Actually, I would go to one of my family’s gravesights and see if anyone was there.

Dane – Yes, rumors run amuck about the girl scout murders. Still. Weird about your ex. It’s so hard to pull any facts from small town rumors 30 years later. Other people have been ivestigated, but to what extent I do not know. I don’t personally have any particular opinion as to whether or not Hart did it, but it sure seems likely that there was more than one person involved, even if one of them was Hart. As for a seance at the site, it would not be directly admissable in court, but if one were done and something came of it, the leads could be followed and investigated. If these leads panned out, the fruits of the investigaton WOULD be admissable. I was also young at the time of the murders, just 5 years old, living in Tulsa at the time. I found out about it much later also. And yes, it is still very disturbing to a LOT of people, not just us. It’s just so mind boggling that something like that could happen. It grabs you even after 30 years. It’s hard to get your mind around. That old camp, closed forever the very next day, just sitting there being reclaimed by the forest. It’s so sad, because it was one of those happy childhood places where people think back to and smile for the rest of their lives. Then came June 14th 1977. Such incredible innocence shattered so brutally in the dark of a stormy night. Those magical childhood memories forever replaced with a sick horror. It would be one thing if the events of the night were known, horrible as they may be. There would be closure of some sort. Instead it’s just this horrible dark mystery. Nothing but questions. It is very haunting. There is a docuumentary on the topic, made in 1981, I think, by one of the OSBI people who investigated the crime (Someone Cry for the Chilren is the name of the documentary). Without commenting about the opinions of the documentary in general, there is an outstanding introduction narrated by Johnny Cash that really captures the haunting feeling that a lot of us still feel regarding this crime. I guess we have wandered off topic. My fault for starting this discussion. I was actually in the old hospital in Guthrie with some friends back in 1989. We were snooping around with torches for light. I don’t know how in the world we avoided being arrested. No ghosts. Very creepy place though nevertheless. I agree that if I were a ghost I would not hang out the hospital where I died (if I even died in a hospital). I don’t know where I would be, but it would not be there. I’ll figure all that out if I ever become a ghost. Anyhow, have a god day – Tim

I can find the address of the Guthrie boys home easy enough, but I’m trying to get a picture of it’s location in my mind. It seems I passed a building looking familiar to what I saw in the pictures. What kind of landmarks or stores is it close too? Is it near the courthouse or on the edge of town? If so, which side of town?

To Tim: This sounds awful, but it makes me feel better knowing I’m not the only one who felt this way.

Dane, I went there earlier this year. I’m not from Guthrie, way south of there actually. I have some good pics, though few, I took when I was there. If you’re interested in seeing them, e-mail me. lil_T_376@hotmail.com. I had a friend from the area show us to the place and it seemed down in a residential area on the North? sude of town. Can’t remember the street name, sorry.

It was a beautiful place to photograph…

Alright, I eat my words about the Freemasons. I was bored today, and on the National Geographic channel was a special about the Freemasons. They are old and secretive and there are a ton of conspiracy theories dating way back to old Europe, inluding rumors of satanism. Very interesting facts about the layout of DC streets (satanic pentagrams and so forth – for real). I am not saying they are evil, because they are probaly not. Secrets create suspicion. And there is certainly a TON of suspicion dating back centuries to long before the USA even existed, and some of it is pretty intersting. Their symbols are everywhere, dollar bills and so forth. So, my apologies. Apparently I was the one in the dark here on this topic. There is a lot more to the Freemasons than I ever realized. I think maybe I was confusing them with VFW lodges or something. Regards – Tim

Okay paranormal stuff is real. I’m experincing some paranormal stuff that the moment but I saw or read that some of you don’t belive in it. Well you should. Those things are real. And you DON’T want to be involve with that stuff trust me.and tim if you need any proff email me sakurajosie@yahoo.com

I never said paranormal stuff is not real. I only said that me and my friends didn’t notice anything at the old hospital in Guthrie. The building was *truly* abandoned when we were there, unlike now. If there were evil (or even nice) things lurking, it seems like we would have been perfect unsuspecting victims because we were just stupid clueless kids. – Tim

Oh…either ay that’s what kids do now a days so I won’t blame you.